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Forum » ..:: History ::.. » History of the ulster scots » Origin of the Ulster Scots language
Origin of the Ulster Scots language
CulzieDate: Tuesday, 2008-09-30, 10:10 PM | Message # 1
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It came across from the Danish,Dutch seaboard. A West Germanic language. As the various other peoples arrived in England,the language ended up being mainly spoke in Scotland. Then across to Ulster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeC1yAaWG34&feature=related


Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
 
SlappataigDate: Wednesday, 2008-10-01, 7:09 PM | Message # 2
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oooo wink
 
CulzieDate: Thursday, 2008-10-02, 1:55 PM | Message # 3
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Aye, It answers those detractors [and you know who they are] that say that Ullans is a 'makey-up language' for Orangemen. Its been around for hundreds or thousands of years..

Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
 
CulzieDate: Thursday, 2008-10-23, 5:48 PM | Message # 4
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This is jist tae pre-empt onie quaystions fowk micht hae anent Scots, an aiblins clear up twa-thrie fauss norries. I hae taen (an chyngit a wee bittie) the text frae ma Scots forum (no gey active the nou, but aye leukin for mair memmers) at http://scotsleidforum.proboards100.com/index.cgi

Whit is Scots?
Scots is a Germanic leid uissit in maist o Scotland furth o the Gaidheltachd an pairts o Ireland. It isnae tae be confused wi Gaelic, whilk is a hailly deiferent, Celtic leid. It is decendit frae the Northumbrian brainch o Anglo-Saxon, an in fack haunds on tae monie wurds an forms frae Anglo-Saxon that's no fun in modren Inglis. Also, it's haed mair influece nor Inglis frae Scandinavia, the Law Countries an Gaelic. It haes a wrutten history gaein back ower sax hunner year.

Is Scots a dialeck o Inglis?
The muckle feck o fowk that kens their stuff wad say "Na". The debates gangs on, but essentially, Scots haes a faur mair extensive vocabulary an mair disteinctive grammatical maks nor wad be fer ordinar be funnd in a dialeck, as weil as haein a wratten historie gaein back til the Meiddle Eilds, whan it wes the maist uised leid in the kintra furth o the Gaidheltachd - frae the ferms tae the royal courts. O course, ther's nae haird an fast definition o whit sets a leid apairt frae a dialeck - Danish an Bokmal Norrowegian is mair sib nor Scos an Inglis, but fowk aye thinks o thaim as seperate, sae aiblins the deifference is poleiticial as muckle as it is lingueistic. It micht be mair accurate tae threap that Scots is a dialeck o the Teutonic (as Fordun did o baith Scots an Inglis in the Meiddle Eilds) - and mind that the Goethe Institure sets furth a cairt that disna haud Inglis as a leid skailed frae the German.

Hou monie fowk haes the leid?
Due tae the gey laich status o Scots, it's haird tae tell fer certaint. Maist research gies a figure atween ane an twa million - the maist widely quoted is that o Aberdeen University, whilk haulds that there is 1.5 million Scots spaekers in Scotland (tho monie gin no maist isna able tae read an screive it eith, syne Scots insa leired in schuills, an ther's nae standart spellin seistem). Furth o Scotland, there is a dialeck o the leid that's spaek in Ulster, Ireland; whilk haes oniewhaur atween 30,000 an 100,000 spaekers, an sum fowk threaps that syne they hae the samen ancestor an skare monie features in common, sum Northren Inglis dialecks is as muckle Scots as Inglis. Ther's no been a quaystion in onie census speirin fowk gin they hae Scots, an whan ane daes get includit in the future, it'll like as no gie a laicher nummer nor the richt ane syne monie Scots speakers dinna recognise themsels as sic.

Whit status daes Scots hae in Scotland?
The status o Scots in Scotland is unco laich, whilk is doun tae monie factors, the heidmaist o whilk is that for a lang, lang time it haes been leuked doun on as bein juist bad Inglis (whilk, for onieane that haes duin e'en the maist basic research intae the maitter, is obviously jist haivers). Tho maitters hae impruived in recent year, the stigma attachit tae Scots is still unco great - gin a bodie wis tae gang for a job interview an speak in Scots, for ensample, he'd hae awmaist nae chance o gettin a job syne fowk associate Scots wi illeiteracy, the unnerclass etc.

Whit wey can I leir Scots?
As wi onie leid, there's mair nor ae wey tae dae it. Byde amang Scots spaekers, read Scots buiks or uise a leid-leirer buik. The ainlie complete ane sae faur is the Luath Scots Language Learner, tho Dauvit Purves haes set furth A Scots Grammar, whilk is wurth a leuk. WL Lorimer's The New Testament in Scots is aften hailed as ane o the greatest warks in Scots prose, an suld be consult as a sustained exemplar o guid, modren Scots. It's an owerset straucht frae the Greek by ane o the best Greek scholars Scotland haes producit, an is for certaint on a soun lingueistic basis for baith leids.


Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
 
SlappataigDate: Sunday, 2008-10-26, 11:06 AM | Message # 5
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class read
 
CulzieDate: Sunday, 2008-10-26, 11:40 AM | Message # 6
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Yeah Slappa it is. I think with some folk they can't think 'outside the box' because it has similarities with English. The same could be said of Scots gaelic and Irish gaelic.

Scots was the offical language of Scotland,and it was carried over to Ulster. It was only when James moved his court from Edinburgh to London that English became the 'main' language. If he had stayed in Edinburgh then perhaps we would all be speaking in the Scots tongue and English would have been described as a dialect.

When you look at most European languages they are made up of the same letters. The difference being that they are arranged in different places to make up a word.

You have to go to Chinese and Arabic to see real differences.


Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
 
SlappataigDate: Wednesday, 2008-10-29, 7:50 PM | Message # 7
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excatly.
 
CulzieDate: Thursday, 2008-10-30, 10:11 PM | Message # 8
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Wish there were more like you Slappa

Ullans certainly has its detractors I think the vehemence is even more so from the Protestant community,than from the nationalist community. Yet there is no similar attitude towards the Irish Gaelic language.

There is a word used happily by the Protestant loyalist community day in and day out without any problem. It even appears in Orange publications. The word is even used in one of the posts on this thread. Nobody has any 'hang-ups about it,or query it the way they do with Scots/Ulster Scots words. The word I speak of is 'craic'.

This word is Ulster-Scots in origin. It was never an Irish word,but has been pinched and given an Irish spelling. Yet Prods will use it gaily in their everyday English language without querying it,dissecting and ridiculing it as they do with Scots/Ullans. I find this baffling and indeed sad,that this attitude pertains among our own people.

Ulster Scots and Irish Gaelic were both recogonised as Lesser Used Languages of the European Union and given offical status. However, later on Irish Gaelic was given recognistion as a fully-fledged language along with French,English,German etc. This was done not because suddenly everybody was speaking Irish thoughout Eire,but because Eire was a country in its own right. If Scotland became independent,then in all probability Scots would be recognised as a fully-fledged language. As the writer of 'Green English' put it....if you have a goverment,an army,a navy...then its a language. If not...its a dialect.

But perhaps those of vision,knowing their own people,could see what was coming.....

'The mair that kintra heirskip oor ain fowk haes is miskent,sae far as luiks concarnit,an mak little o, tha jist chughie at wi a no canny lippen at ithers taks fur want o wut'

'Although our cultural heritage appears to be unacknowledged and belittled by our own people,they just carry on with an extraordinary trust in life that appears naive to outsiders.'


Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
 
SlappataigDate: Sunday, 2008-11-02, 3:10 PM | Message # 9
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ive never met a prod making fun of ulster scots, other than to joke about a country persons "accent"
true about that "craic" though. folk dont think its irish i think for thats the spelling for the way its pronounced in a belfast accent, like "norn iron"
 
CulzieDate: Tuesday, 2008-11-04, 12:56 PM | Message # 10
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ive never met a prod making fun of ulster scots, other than to joke about a country persons "accent"
true about that "craic" though. folk dont think its irish i think for thats the spelling for the way its pronounced in a belfast accent, like "norn iron"

Oh Ive met them Slappa. They don't only joke about it,they attack it. I have spent a while on Pulse defending it,with a right few arrayed against it. They have no problem using irish words,but when it comes to Ulster Scots/Ullans they seem to have a problem.


Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
 
Forum » ..:: History ::.. » History of the ulster scots » Origin of the Ulster Scots language
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