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Forum » ..:: General ::.. » General Discussion » Carson and Ulster
Carson and Ulster
CulzieDate: Saturday, 2009-05-16, 12:57 PM | Message # 1
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Some people are always at pains to point out that Carson was an irishman and born in Dublin etc. They also add that Carson was fighting to keep ireland in the Union. They are right on the first one and partly right on the second. He did start off trying to maintain the status quo,but soon realised that the only way to have a British presence on the island was through Ulster. Things had changed and Carson grasped that very quickly. Ulster was the saviour. I make it six times he mentions Ulster in this article and ireland,the north or northern ireland..... zero

Published Date:
11 May 2009
By Darryl Armitage
News Letter - May 11, 1912

SIR Edward Carson was this week a guest at a banquet hosted by the 1900 Club which was held in the Hotel Cecil in London, reported the News Letter on this day in 1912.

Among those who also attended the banquet the most notable were the Duke of Somerset, Lord Londonderry and the Earls of Ancaster, Halsbury and Malmesbury, as well as some 30 MPs and representatives of "the United Liberal Unionist, United Empire,or Constitutional and Patriots Clubs".

Sir Edward told those at the banquet that the question of Home Rule was one that the Unionists of Ulster would not back down on, they simply would not have it. He said that the people of Ulster were furious with the Government for its "filthy bargaining with Nationalists".

He told the audience that the people had made up their minds and that "no coaxing" by the First Lord of the Admiralty or "any other politician will ever divert the intention of Ulster".

He continued that he did not care whether or not Government believed that Ulster could be swayed in favour of Home Rule, only be refusing to accept Home Rule, said Carson, could "the gravest disasters" to the country be averted.

He also warned the Government that any threat of coercion would turn Ulster even more against the administration and that they would make Ulster "a hostile part" of the empire.

He denied that Unionists did not have an alternative. They did, said Carson, and that alternative was the Union.


Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
 
CulzieDate: Sunday, 2009-05-17, 7:57 PM | Message # 2
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It seems like those in Westminster wern't to happy about Carson's stance re Ulster. But to Carson (and Craig) Ulster had to come first, and gurantees had to be given. If there had been no threat from a hostile neighbour to the south,then things would have been different. Once again I think its shows the stong belief and feeling Carson had for Ulster.

The British Empire Is Long Gone But Ulster Is Still Here

July 3 1939

The attitude of Lord Carson on the eve of the Great War-as revealed in a letter from Sir Austen Chamberlain in a recent extract in 'The Sunday Times' -has obviously disturbed Ulster Unionism. Lord Carson was playing the old game of putting Ulster first

Carson had clearly threatened that reservists who were Ulster Volunteers would not obey a mobilisation order. Carson was not out to ruin the Union,but he saw this as Ulster's opportunity and made the most of his chance.

In a letter to 'The Sunday Times' Lt-Col Sir Wilfred B Spender KCB is at pains to explain away Sir Austen Chamberlain's 'misapprehension' which he says is probably due to the fact ''that Lord Carson made it cleat that he would not advise the men of the UVF to join up as a body until he had an assurance that no unfair advantage would be taken of them during their absence from home''. Sir Wilfred stresses the point that the cause of Ulster came first.

Britain is threatened and Lord Craigavon,Lord Carson's successor,has informed the public that in event of an emergency the B Specials are likely to be expanded. A huge army to guard Ulster.


Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
 
CulzieDate: Sunday, 2009-05-17, 8:13 PM | Message # 3
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From 'The Ulster Crisis'

By the evening of August 4,Britain was at war with Germany,and Lord Kitchener of Khartoum,just as he was about to board a Channel steamer on his way to Egypt,was recalled to become War Minster,an office which Asquith had held since Seely's resignation in March.

Three days later Kitchener sent for Colonel Hickman and said,''I want the Ulster Volunteers'', Hickman told him he must see Carson and Craig. Kitchener did see them,but the interview was less than amicable,for he had the poorest opinion of politicans,and took the line that Carson and Redmond were a pair of silly schoolboys who ought to have their heads knocked together.

His opening remark ''Surely you are not going to hold out for Tyrone and Fermanagh?'' was infelicitious to say the least,and drew from Carson the retort ''You're a damned clever fellow telling me what I ought to be doing''. Carson and Craig wanted the U.V.F. kept together as a fighting unit,and suggested that the word 'Ulster' should follow the name of the Division,it was proposed to raise,but Kitchener would not hear of this,and the meeting ended inconclusively.


Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
 
Gadsden1775Date: Sunday, 2009-06-21, 11:35 AM | Message # 4
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It's funny how everyone want's the Ulsterman when theres fighting to be done, yet at other times the same people like to tell the Ulsterman how to think. dry

I guess we'll have to be more selective of our loyalties in future Culzie... wink happy


Don't Tread On Me
 
CulzieDate: Sunday, 2009-06-21, 8:43 PM | Message # 5
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Couldn't agree more Gadsden. Speaking for myself personally my loyalty is now more pragmatic than it was before. Those at Westminster have always seemed to apply that attitude to Ulster,so it was time I think to take the same approach with them.

Of course I only speak for myself and I realise there are those who would think differently. But Britain's attitude to the loyal Ullish people over the last 40 years has had some bearing on my thinking.


Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
 
SlappataigDate: Sunday, 2009-06-28, 8:57 PM | Message # 6
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my loyalty shall lie with ulster first and foremost, and untill there isnt one single loyalist suporting us in the island of britain left then itl be to britain second.
 
hydstarDate: Thursday, 2022-01-27, 6:48 AM | Message # 7
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JuliaFrodDate: Thursday, 2022-03-10, 8:08 PM | Message # 8
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You have a point!
 
sophiaharry129Date: Tuesday, 2022-06-21, 11:18 AM | Message # 9
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Sir Edward Carson was the first person to sign the Covenant at Belfast City Hall with a silver pen, followed by The 6th Marquess of Londonderry (the former Lord Lieutenant of Ireland), representatives of the Protestant churches, and then by Sir James Craig. Click here for more details: 30 Inch Rims
 
Kelar18Date: Wednesday, 2022-06-22, 5:37 AM | Message # 10
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