I can't understand why people voted for Paisley jr in that election,after what Papa doc did. I guess people really like the hooks and twisters rather than men of principle. That how I see it anyway.

Just mentiong that book. Its says something similar as to what you said re us and the beaches of Ayr,only difference was it was Stranraer beaches that the Protestant people were all lying out on,using upturned boats to shelter from the elements. I'll post it up. Think that was in 1641 if I remember correctly.

I think a lot of people vote for the DUP out of fear of Sinn Fein becoming the largest party. Would make no difference except for propaganda for the scum. The DUP are a disgrace have sold out, the IRA on the runs now have been granted an amnesty all done very quietly, yet another dirty deal, and what has our community got out this power-sharing crap?.. We had the first real chance in years of actually being activiely involved right at the heart of British politics. I'm not the conservatives biggest fan, but they got my vote, the best option for Ulster by a mile, and what happens, they were hammered in the elections... are the people of the Unionist community really so bloody stupid?

Think those that vote DUP must be fools,or else masochists. They must like humilation,cause thats what the DUP has did with all those who voted for them over the years....myself included. But at least I can see that I was taken for a fool. I congraulate Paisley on his confidence trick. I have to hand it to him. But at least I've learned from that,but apparently there are a lot who haven't.

I wasn't going to vote at all during the last election but in the end went for TUV. It was between them and the Conservatives. If it had been someone else other than Ringland then they would have got my vote. It was something I thought about,trying to look at the overall picture. However,I read a letter Ringland had posted to the papers and he seemed to talking about the break-up of the Union and how Ulster should be looking towards an all-Ireland arrangement. I just couldnt stomach that. How can this guy call himself a unionist. There is a lot of that sort of thinking emerging more and more within unionism.

Just noticed a few books advertised in the NL 'Ulster's Last Stand' 'Towards Inclusiveness' and 'Carson..The Man Who Divided Ireland'. In other words its code for 'Carson was to blame and him and Craig got it wrong''. Why not Pearse...the Man Who Divided Ireland?

Good letter in the NL today bay a fella called Kirkwood in which he gave the politicans a bit of criticism for the way they are behaving. He was more or less saying that there was no fight or belief in them anymore. That they appeared weary and prepared to accept anything,usually no accepting blame for anything,talking about their hands being tied. This was in relation to the Maze but it could apply to many other things. I think Mr Kirkwood has got it right. I know I found myself nodding my head in agreement.

Just to point out. I'm not sure about the TUV either. I voted for them because they are traditional,but also because they haven't been around long enought to behave like the rest. But thats not to say they won't if they were to get into the 'driving seat'.

The TUV to me are telling the truth, but they are a one man band in the shape of Jim Allister, and the time it will take for them to build themselves up to the same size in terms of finance, membership and electorial success as the DUP it will probably be to late to make any significant difference as to much will have been lost between now and then.

Yip, the fenians may have stopped their violent offensive (on a large scale) throughout the Province against our community, but they are at the forefront of a cultural war.

A one man band is true as regards the TUV,though I think Vance is not to bad. However,I think Jim Allister lacks the charisma which is a basic in todays world of TV and media communication. Its sad ta it is this way where a man who has principle counts for nothing against the razz-ma-tazz of those who know how to exploit the media. Davy Ervine got loads of attention on the TV etc probably because he was selling what the 'powers that be' wanted him to sell ie the Belfast Agreement. I think if he had been having to pay for that TV time it would have run into millions.

Yeah the fenians make no secret of what their plan is. I have already posted on here what some of them have said about wooing the unionists and their Unionist Outreach policy. But the thing is there are 'unionists' who are actively going along with this. The flute band which operates out of Belvoir Estate kicked it off with a St Patrick's Day event. There were those waiting in the wings for this to happen and this gave them the nod to bring Irish dancing into Belvoir School and then Gaelic football. I was talking to a fella that I have sorta known for a right few years and his son was in this band. They asked me if I would come up and sing a few songs at it. I politely declined the invitation. Another 'gunk' I got was when my own ABOD decided they are going to hold a paddy day parade every year from now on.

Wondering too,did you see the letter in the NL where it said that McGuinness should address the Orangemen at the field on the 12th of July and Robinson should address the Hibernians on the 15th of August. It was signed 'Orangeman'.

A lot a people respected Ervine, personally I detested his politics. He even said it himself that he regretted becoming involved in violence and only got involved after witnessing the bombs go off on bloody friday. Fair play to him for being honest, but it seems to me he was more a man who joined up not out of love of his community and Country but more so out of a basic instinct of hatred for the scum after some of the terrible attacks that were carried out at that time.

Same with a lot a these former loyalist prisoners who blame Ian Paisley for them ending up in prison, I wonder at times just how committed to the cause some of these people were. At the end of the day Ian Paisley shouted hot air, he didn't say anything different that ordinary working class people weren't thinking at that time, although he has proven himself to be a eejit on manys an occaision, I believe Enoch Powell believed him to be a bigger threat to the Unionist cause than the IRA.

I never seen the letter in the newsletter, but is there really any different between them now?..

Unionist unity is a most, when we are as one we can still achieve something, Fermanagh-South Tyrone at the last election for example, we just missed out on taking the seat from Sinn Fein and I believe a few idiots on our side spoiled their ballot papers by writing TUV across them. What really get's me is the amount a prods turning towards alliance.

I believe the shinners get the vote because they are a one 'basic policy' party. Unionists on the other hand are going off 'half-cocked' in every direction. They are trying to be all things to all people. Some of these journalist pundits take the line that people are not voting for the Unionist Party because of their traditional values. I would say most are turned off voting altogether because they (UUP) have lost the traditional values which the Party was founded on. The people don't know where they are. Before that, the message was simple,now they are confused and fed-up with it all, due in no small part to parties like the DUP and PUP etc etc emerging. I think at one time there were about 8 different unionist parties.

Gerry Fitt and Paisley were the two main instigators of what led us to where we are today. I think it was Lord Brookeborough's son who said about the 'civil rights' agitators....''they are creating a Frankenstein Monster'' and as it turned out he was right.

In passing. I seen in last weeks papers that the Ulster Unionists spent something like £130,000 on their election campaign. However,only £16,000 of this came from the Ulster Unionists. The rest came from the Conservative Party. So it seems they were commited to here,but the people once again showed that they didn't want to be British as Finchley.

All the Unionist parties all seem to be that stuck up their own arses that nobody knows what exactly they stand for, I don't know how the conservatives done so badly because people genuinely want solutions to everyday issues like immigration, cost of living/fuel, jobs etc, instead in this Country plenty within our own community have switched to alliance and the crack-pot policys that they have. It's pure madness and very sad.

I have read a few things which makes me thing this. Just to mention one. When the Volunteers were formed to protect against an expected French invasion every man was pro British. Unfortunately this gave some within the ranks of the Volunteers a feeling of power and many refused to give up their weapons when the danger of French invasion had passed. They took up the cause of Catholic Emancipation. The English gave way to the demands being made from the Volunteers regarding this, and the Catholics declared they were happy with the changes made. But the Volunteers said this was not enough and demanded more of the goverment. The goverment refused and again called on them to disarm,and again they refused. They later formed themselves into the United Irishmen. Most of these were Presbyterian.

Just to add the Scots had always wished for Presbyterism to be the Church of Ireland, as in Scotland it was the Church of Scotland,but instead it became Anglican... and the Church of Ireland.

So that disagreement has been under the surface for a long time. In times of crisis the two sides do draw together, but when peace comes it rises again. Hence I think that has something to do with the aversion to being more involved in UK politics.

Maybe not a big thing,but I feel it is always there, a stumbling to complete and total unity.

I think a lot of it has to do with regional identitys, now people view patriotism and channel their patriotism through football or other sports etc, people care more about football than this nation. And the idea of a United British football team is a big no no. To me it's about blood.

Yeah thats the 'killer' they should have made a complete break from all things Irish. Liam Logan (SDLP) who writes in the Ulster Scot paper waffled on in the NL about how the OO,and all the main churches etc etc are Irish based conviently leaving out that these institutions were formed when the Royal writ applied thoughout the island and the Union flag flew over the whole island. That changed in 1921/22. But the old institutions behaved as if things were still the same and now the pigeons are coming home to roost. Eric Montgomery in the 1950s tried to change things and go for an more alround Ulster identity but the dinosaurs within unionism couldnt see beyond the end of their noses.

We are left today with a situation where the goverment is setting in place structures which will draw us more into an all Ireland arrangement. But instead of that being bad enough unionists are activitely working too on the same theme. They don't have to. They could stand aside and maybe even oppose these things.....but they don't. So one is left to wonder why they act in this manner. How could they turn so quickly from being people of 'no surrender' 'not an inch' to people of 'surrender' and giving in on nearly every issue.

Off track a bit I wonder how many will even bother to switch to Airtricty from NIE now that is owned by Dublin. Not very many if we are to take the B.T. as an example. 'No Dublin Interference' it use to say.

To be honest I actually meant Northern Ireland football flags, i.e. the ifa flags, but I wrote "northern ireland flag thing", instead of "northern ireland football flags", was a typing error on my part. Hope that clears up any confusion.

The old institutions as you correctly said refused to move with the times, and now we are paying the price for their stupidity.

Yeah we are bound to the past and yet it is people within these institutions keep pushing us to ''move forward' don't be 'living in the past'. Yet they did exactly that. They hadn't the foresight,vision and guts to go forward as a people in their own right. The recent Irish label thing showed that mindset is still there. They are either too lazy,frightened or scared to promote themselves and their country. They have to cling unto Irish or British shirtails. They could be Ullish and British,but I don't think they have the dedication and commitment for the job.