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O.O. 'has 34,000 members'
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| Culzie | Date: Saturday, 2012-09-15, 4:58 PM | Message # 1 |
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| Orange Order ‘has 34,000 members’
By SAM McBRIDE
Published on Saturday 15 September 2012 13:36
MEMBERSHIP of the Orange Order is now “about 34,000”, one of the Institution’s most senior figures has said.
Grand Secretary Drew Nelson said that although numbers had fallen, they had not slumped to the same extent as those of other mass membership organisations such as political parties or trade unions.
The last time that the News Letter reported Orange membership figures was in 2006. Then the Order claimed to have 35,758 members, meaning that there has been a fall of almost five per cent in six years.
In an in-depth interview with the News Letter, to be published in full in Monday’s paper, the Dromore solicitor also took a swipe at the broadcast media, claiming that broadcasters have “a republican bias”.
In its heyday in the 1960s the Orange Order claimed more than 90,000 members in Ireland.
When asked about the Institution’s current membership, Mr Nelson said: “Membership is about 34,000. That’s been broadcast before so it’s not a secret.
“It’s pretty stable over the last 10 years but if you go back it peaked in the 60s in the days of mass membership organisations, and when the Conservative Party had 1.5 million members and trade unions had millions upon millions of members.”
Mr Nelson acknowledged that the Order’s decentralised nature made it difficult to impose discipline and to present a united front, but added that it gave the Institution the “massive advantage” of sustaining itself, something he said was evidenced by the fact that it has remained a mass-membership organisation for more than two centuries.
“Our membership has reduced but not as much as membership of political parties or the churches in British society. So from that point of view, I think the Orange Institution is in a strong position.
“We still have the loyalty of a very substantial proportion – not all obviously – but a very substantial proportion of the Protestant community; we are providing 800 venues for meetings for about 6,000 groups, those are provided free of charge without any charge whatsoever to the Government except for the rates relief on the halls.
“That contribution to society, I think, is taken for granted.”
Mr Nelson, who has been the key modernising influence at the top of the Orange Order over recent years, acknowledged that the summer disturbances surrounding several parades had been damaging to the Order.
But he claimed that there had also been “bias” in the media, especially in the case of the Young Conway Volunteers (YCV) band who played a sectarian song while marching in a circle outside a Catholic church in Belfast.
“Within the media, News Letter excepted, I think we’ve been unfairly treated this year. In particular, in relation to what happened outside St Patrick’s on Donegall Street on the Twelfth with the band. That was shown, I understand, by the broadcast media, five nights in a row.
“Now, with all due respect to them, that was complete overkill. If there had been three murders on the Twelfth day, it wouldn’t have been shown for five nights in a row – it would have been a couple of nights and then off.
“I still have no doubt that there’s a republican agenda within a lot of the broadcast media that came to the fore and had a field day in the five days after the Twelfth, and I must say that I’ve been disappointed by their attitude to it.”
Some in the Order say that it makes its critics’ job easy – for instance investigating a complaint against Tom Elliott and Danny Kennedy for attending the funeral of Ronan Kerr but seeming to take no action over the YCV band’s conduct.
Mr Nelson said that there was “an internal investigation going on about the band” but claimed that the disciplinary action over the funeral was an example of media bias as a broadcast journalist had asked on the day of the funeral “whether the Orange Order would discipline them for going into a Roman Catholic church when no one in the Institution had raised it. Why did that broadcast media organisation see fit to raise that as an issue when no one in the Institution had raised it? I think that the example you have given is proof that there is a republican bias, I believe, within the broadcast media in Northern Ireland”.
Was it not legitimate to raise the issue as David Trimble had faced a similar Orange investigation in 1998 when the then UUP leader attended a funeral mass for Omagh bomb victims?
“No, I don’t think so. They weren’t there in their capacity as members of the Institution. They were clearly there as political leaders of Northern Ireland and I think it was inappropriate for that to have been raised and so it led to the broadcast media setting the agenda for the Institution.”
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| RSAUB | Date: Sunday, 2012-09-16, 11:43 AM | Message # 2 |
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Colonel general
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| He is right there is a republican bias in the media, but unfortunately some of our people make the scums jobs a lot easier.
A five percent decline in 6 years and this being such an important year in our history is very concerning, but there is room for growth, while there is still a support base there, and usually when someone joins, there's always a fair chance that they will bring someone else in with them. The best thing that Orange men can do is ask people would they like to join.
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| Culzie | Date: Tuesday, 2012-09-18, 5:00 PM | Message # 3 |
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| Agree and I think in Scotland they have an award for the lodge introducing the most new members. Though some might look at that as gettin quantity at the expense of quality. But whatever you still need numbers to keep functioning and I think its a good idea.
The OO has been in similar situations before and at one time closed down altogether after wrongful allegations being made against it by O'Connell and his cronies. But they came back from this renewed and stronger than before.
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| RSAUB | Date: Tuesday, 2012-09-18, 8:48 PM | Message # 4 |
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Colonel general
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| Sometimes quantity is important, money is money after all and numbers are required to bring in the money and obviously to keep the thing going.
Task groups should be set-up in each district to work out what formulas work, in-terms of becoming more involved in the local community, recruitment, making the Orange Halls more inviting. I have often throught of the idea of making a gym, in some of our bigger halls. They have great money making protential, that along with these slimming groups that use orange halls and community halls, are the new social scene for people, what was once the bar is now the gym.
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| Culzie | Date: Wednesday, 2012-09-19, 8:30 PM | Message # 5 |
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| Good idea. I think it requires some forward thinking like that. There was talk of making the Ballymacarret Hall into a hotel aimed mostly at providing accomodation for visiting brethren and bands. There is more or less a full calendar of parades and competitions thoughout the year so it might be a good idea.
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| RSAUB | Date: Saturday, 2012-09-22, 9:16 AM | Message # 6 |
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Colonel general
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| It would be a good idea, instead of giving our money to hotels who look down at our culture and people as scum. Give the money to our own and also make the experience for visiting loyalists more enjoyable and much more of an experience.
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| Culzie | Date: Friday, 2012-10-26, 9:22 PM | Message # 7 |
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| Its an idea that we would should be pushing. I was thinking that the nearby bank whih is closed would make an ideal stand-in (or even long term meeting place) until the hall was changed to a hotel. But I heard of a nearby church which has closed and they are maybe looking at that.
I have always been a bit of a traditionalist,but have to agree, with some things you have to alter a bit to survive.
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| RSAUB | Date: Saturday, 2012-10-27, 7:30 PM | Message # 8 |
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Colonel general
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| Tradition is something that we should always be on our guard to make sure we don't stray to far from it, but as times change and we don't need some of the building we have or they simply aren't fit for purpose to be used by the wider community then new ideas have to be taken onboard.
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| Culzie | Date: Monday, 2013-06-03, 5:05 PM | Message # 9 |
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| NL Tuesday,May,21,2013
Part of an article celebrating 150 years of the Belfast County Lodge
On Saturday night,over 250 guests enjoyed a formal dinner in Belfast City Hall,which was also attended by the Lord Mayor,and the Grand Masters from the mainland. A special thanksgiving service was also held in Westbourne Presbyterian Church in the city.
''One hundred and fofty years is a long time - its six generations and there are six generations who have contributed to the range Institution in Belfast,'' says George (Chittick)
Today,around 4,000 Orangemen are involved in the lodge,which is composed of 10 districts,although a little confusingly, Districts seven and eight are counted as one.
Together with Districts 1,2,3 and 4 they sit in Clifton Street Orange Hall; District 5 sits in Sandy Row Orange Hall,District 6 in Ballymacarret Orange Hall,District 9 in West Belfast Orange Hall.and District 10 in Ballynafeigh Orange Hall.
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| Culzie | Date: Sunday, 2013-07-14, 7:27 PM | Message # 10 |
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| From News Letter Saturday July, 13, 2013
Reported in the News Letter on this day 1965 some excerpts
The rain began before half the 10 Belfast districts had reached the field at Finaghy. But it was too late to damp the the spirits of the 25,000 Orangemen who walked, some solemnly,some gaily,but all proudly,to celebrate the 275th anniversary of the Battle of the Boyne. And the rain soon cleared off to give them a dry walk back.
A French journalist watching proceedings declared: ''But this is 'magnifique'. What a sight if would be if it was on colour television.''
There was a special cheer for about 15 Canadian brethren and a contingent from Dublin and Wexford.
TENS OF THOUSANDS ON PARADE AT 18 VENUES ACROSS ULSTER
Nearly 100,000 Orangemen walked to 18 demonstrations thoughout the province yesterday to celebrate the 275th anniversary of the Battle of the Boyne. The speeches at the various fields reiterated the determination of Ulster to stay British and true to Orange principles. That was the main theme,and although the O'Neil-Lemass talks were favourably referred to,there was a general attitude of caution. The Government's new approach to Eire which was hoped would lead to an extension of the economy of both countries,was welcomed in a resolution passed at al the demonstrations.
The resolution warned however,''of the continuing assault on our constitutional position''.
WARNING OVER 'UNHOLY SIGNS'
WF McCoy,MP at Stormont for South Tyrone,told the demonstration at Augher that every member of ther Orange Order was filled with misgivings at the trend of events happening in certain Protestant churches.
''We are dismayed at numbers of different Protestant clergymen in Limerick attending a Roman Catholic service.'' he said. 'We are shocked at the President of the Methodist Church in England having a Roman Catholic bishop at the conference in Plymouth. Then the former Archbishop of Canterbury visited the pope at the Vatican.''
Mr McCoy said that in Ulster there were also unholy signs - all directing the way to Rome. Such conduct on the part of the clergymen was only denuding churches of their congregations and shaking the Christian faith of the people.
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| RSAUB | Date: Sunday, 2013-07-28, 1:54 PM | Message # 11 |
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Colonel general
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| Excellent article there.
How things have changed, and out of all those 25,000 Orangemen marching in Belfast back then compared to now is scandalous when you consider that back then there wouldn't have been anywhere near the percentage of Scottish brethren and bandsmen who now make up such a big part of the procession our the amount of Orangemen who are members of Belfast lodges but live outside the City boundaries and bands taking part in the procession from other parts of Ulster like Kilkeel and Omagh not to mention the amount of big Belfast bands that actually have large portions of their membership coming from all over.like the Pass band SBYC now have over 30 members from outside the boundaries of South Belfast and East Belfast Protestant Boys only have about 30 or so members from East Belfast according to figures by members of those bands on other forums. So if we had a parade in Belfast of Orangemen and bands (bandsmen) who actually lived within the City boundaries then the true figures could be very low indeed.
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| Culzie | Date: Sunday, 2013-07-28, 10:09 PM | Message # 12 |
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| Yes that's why I go on about housing and such like (a wee bit too much maybe for some folk). But the fact is if there is no housing for them, then the people will move out of the city to such places like Bangor where they are not really needed as far as votes etc are concerned. What really bugs me though is the ineptitude of our so-called politicans. There is no zeal or a crusade attitude with them about trying to do something positive about this ongoing situation. Frankly speaking they are a waste of space.
The usual routine with the Prods is that something happens and they get their knickers in a twist and explode in righteous anger. But the groundwork should have been going on in the quiet times so as to avoid these things happening in the first place. But seems like they'll never change. Its always been their way. And meanwhile.
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| RSAUB | Date: Tuesday, 2013-07-30, 11:57 AM | Message # 13 |
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Colonel general
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| Very true, the destruction of Belfast's Protestant communities has been brought about by careful planning by social engineers. And you have our politicians; you only have to look at Ruth Paterson coming across as the staunch true blue loyalist on TV yet smiling at the opening of hundreds of new homes for rebels in her constituency. What planet is she on?
In South Belfast I believe over the decades the social engineers forced a lot of Protestants out towards Dunmurry/Derriagy/Lisburn area just via the secondary schools issue alone because of the lack of secondary schools in the area for working class Protestants,Prods from the likes of Sandy row/Donegal Road/Pass etc all went to school out in Dunmurry and Lisburn.Building up their friendships to people in these areas and making many of them move there. After all kids hang around with the people they go to school with. Also the issue of it taking them well over an hour to get home from school due to hitting the busy traffic on the Lisburn road at that time a day. I think has led to a lot of Protestant families moving out of loyalist areas like Sandy Row/Village etc, to areas like Seymour hill just so their kids could be closer to the schools and be closer to home and may be have a bit of a back garden to play in.
The same in North Belfast were/where you have a lot of Protestant kids from the Shore Road/York road/Tigers Bay area going to school in Glengormley and Monkstown and again the same sort of scenario where Protestant kids are hanging around the Newtownabbey area and then moving out to be closer to their friends from school and also families moving out to be closer to the schools further weakening the Unionist community in areas that could once bring home quite easily a Unionist MP.
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