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Just one-third of Northern Ireland students are Protestant
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| RSAUB | Date: Monday, 2011-10-17, 10:02 PM | Message # 1 |
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Colonel general
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| Just one-third of Northern Ireland students are Protestant
Taken from the BBC website
Just one-third of Northern Ireland students are Protestant
Students Just a third of students in Northern Ireland are from a Protestant background
Just a third of the 35,000 students attending university in Northern Ireland are Protestant, according to new figures.
That means around two-thirds of people at Northern Ireland's universities are from a Catholic background.
The figures were released by Employment and Learning Minister, Stephen Farry, following a question tabled by MLAs Jim Allister and Gregory Campbell.
Less than a fifth of students at Magee College in Londonderry are Protestant.
There are considerably more Catholic than Protestant students at both Queen's University and the University of Ulster.
Overall, there are fewer Protestant school leavers but those who go to university are much more likely to study in the rest of the UK.
A spokesman for the University of Ulster said it does outreach work to encourage students from all backgrounds to study on its campuses.
He said: "It is a sad reflection of society here that the religious composition of our student population should be a matter for public comment.
"The University of Ulster is open to everyone and provides a first class educational experience for its students."
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| Culzie | Date: Monday, 2011-10-17, 10:15 PM | Message # 2 |
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| A sign of the times, but of course there were those of us who had a good idea of how things were going, but others refused to acknowledge that things were changing and carried on with the 'we are the people mentality' or just plain ignored what was happening. Though have to say that a lot of 'Prods' stop counting at one only thinking of themselves and have no allegience to the land of their birth.
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| RSAUB | Date: Monday, 2011-10-17, 10:22 PM | Message # 3 |
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| And what's worrying, I have friends who have studied or are studying in Dundee,Liverpool and Edinburgh and many of those from Ulster are Irish Catholics, so there is a genuine problem with education in our community.
Parents especially young Prods treat their kids, like spoilt prats, spoil them rotten and let them take a lot a days of school (I know I was one a them), however the best thing any parent can give a child is education.
What worries me a fair percentage of Protestants who are in further and higher education are at the agriculture colleges in Antrim and Cookstown, while most of the rebels are at the other University's and are the business brains, doctors and civil administrators of this Country in the future.
I think at times, a large section of the working class Protestant youth are already turning/turned into an under-class.
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| Culzie | Date: Tuesday, 2011-10-18, 2:41 PM | Message # 4 |
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| Very much agree. I was a bit like yourself, a bit resistive to knuckling down and studying. I would have rather been out kicking football or some other activity. I have an admiration for those who can go into long hours of study. I read some while back that in the legal business 60% were Catholic,goodness knows what it is now.
You are quite right about pandering to their children. A workmate who'd just got married and who was a lot younger than me had that attitude ,and it was give his kid whatever he wanted to keep him quiet. I remember a man in a later job I was in, and who was Catholic saying to a few of us about how he got a bike for his son for Christmas and because it wasn't the 'name'bike his son was complaing. His da took it off him and back to the shop and his son had to do without. He also told how he went to the school and told the headmaster if his son needed disciplined he had his permission to do so. He lived down near the docks and came across as a no nonsense man.
Think more and more the attitude of Prods both in politics/Ulster/religion/kids is ''does it really matter''
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| RSAUB | Date: Tuesday, 2011-10-18, 6:11 PM | Message # 5 |
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Colonel general
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| Have to agree, a lot a prods have this attitude of basically not giving a damn, and it's not just about their Country, it's to do with their livelihoods as well. In my work I see so many prods who don't want to work over-time or want to progress at all, they are quite content to go home and sit in the house just as long as they can afford the odd chinese and sky sports. God knows were the pioneering spirit is. Added (2011-10-18, 6:07 PM)
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While just looking at the Belfast Telegraph website there, I came across this article from last year.
Protestant recruitment to the Housing Executive is falling despite policies to improve levels, the Assembly heard.
Democratic Unionist MLA Gregory Campbell raised the issue in support of a motion demanding fairness in public sector employment, where he claimed there were many examples of Protestant under-representation.
Sinn Fein said it backed the DUP-sponsored motion because of the history of anti-Catholic discrimination and in the interests of showing fairness to all, but the SDLP's Declan O'Loan accused Mr Campbell of cherry-picking figures to support his case.
Finance minister Sammy Wilson later said figures for employment in the civil service are broadly reflective of community make-up, but he said it is acceptable to raise justifiable concerns.
Mr Campbell said: "In 2003 the Housing Executive announced that they were implementing an affirmative action plan (to) address the underlying problem of Protestant under-representation in the Housing Executive.
"You would expect to see some progress (but) the percentage of Protestants being recruited to the Housing Executive now is less than when they put the affirmative action programme in place."
He said in 2004 36.6% of those recruited were Protestant, but in 2009 the figure was 33.7%.
Mr Campbell claimed republicans and nationalists did not care about problems with Protestant recruitment in the public sector, and added: "The silence is deafening because they don't seem to mind when it is only Protestants who are being discriminated against."
The SDLP's Mr O'Loan challenged Mr Campbell's wider claims of anti-Protestant discrimination.
"Why does he single out the Housing Executive? I do not know," said Mr O'Loan.
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news....9bhFLAT Added (2011-10-18, 6:11 PM)
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Jim Allister says NI universities must address Protestant imbalance
Students Just a third of students in Northern Ireland are from a Protestant background
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Just third of students Protestant
The independent MLA Jim Allister has said Northern Ireland's universities must do all they can to encourage more admissions from Protestant students.
He was responding to figures from the Department of Employment and Learning which showed that just a third of the 35,000 students attending local universities are Protestant.
There are considerably more Catholic students at the two universities.
Mr Allister described the imbalance as "alarming".
"Of particular concern to me is the Jordanstown campus whereas there are 3,800 students from a Protestant background from NI, there are 6,600 from a Catholic background," he said.
"The Jordanstown and Ulster University situation is worsened by the fact that there's a total imbalance in terms of the number of students from the Republic of Ireland.
"Whereas at Queen's there is essentially an equilibrium between the same number of students from GB and the same number from the Republic - when you go to the University of Ulster, it is five times the number from the Republic as opposed from GB.
"There are 2,800 students from the Republic of Ireland studying at the University of Ulster which suggests to me that the UU for some strange reason is being more successful in recruiting Republic of Ireland students that it is in recruiting local Protestant students from the controlled sector."
Concern
Mr Allister said he would be calling on the local universities to address the imbalance to ensure the situation does not worsen.
He said another big concern was Protestant children not attaining the grades they needed to get into university.
"We have had research that shows that," he said.
"I certainly would like to see that addressed and more and more people from both communities, particularly from that neglected community, the Protestant boys' community in working class areas, being encouraged to work themselves up through the system.
"Whether, in turn, that eventually affects the university figures, we will see.
"But whether it does or doesn't off its own right, it requires to be addressed."
A spokesman for the University of Ulster said it does outreach work to encourage students from all backgrounds to study on its campuses.
He said: "It is a sad reflection of society here that the religious composition of our student population should be a matter for public comment.
"The University of Ulster is open to everyone and provides a first class educational experience for its students."
The figures were released by Employment and Learning Minister Stephen Farry following a question tabled by MLAs Jim Allister and Gregory Campbell.
Less than a fifth of students at Magee College in Londonderry are Protestant.
There are considerably more Catholic than Protestant students at both Queen's University and the University of Ulster.
Overall, there are fewer Protestant school leavers but those who go to university are much more likely to study in the rest of the UK.
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| Culzie | Date: Tuesday, 2011-10-18, 7:21 PM | Message # 6 |
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| Makes depressing reading,but the fiasco just recently when Farry blocked students from England coming here showed what way things are going. Its all pro-Irish and anti-English/British. When I first read that we were keeping student fees lower than in England I thought great,thats a lot coming over from England and some of them might stay. But Farry soon blocked that and left the door open for even more from Eire if they so wished.
Some of us knew when we signed up to the 'agreement' what was going to happen. There was nothing really in it for us,unless you think shinners in goverment is a good thing. Robinson said the other day at a meeting in Liverpool University that the DUP can't ask to much of Sinn Fein  What! Id like to know what thy are gettin from the shinners (and the goverment) unless its because Robinson means they are not murdering us anymore and we have to be thankful to them.
I agree with what Gregory Campbell says. But I don't think he seriously believes that the shinners are going to concern themselves about what happens to Prods. It is our fight and us who should be fighting it. But as a away of focusing attention to the imbalance it has its merits,
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| RSAUB | Date: Tuesday, 2011-10-18, 8:33 PM | Message # 7 |
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| Yes very depressing reading, and when it comes down to it. How many of these Protestant students are from Grammar schools rather than secondary schools particularly in loyalist working class areas.
We are under-represented right across the board, even in the very equality commission.
Indeed, how students from elsewhere in the U.K. have to pay a higher fee than foreigners from the Irish republic is beyond me from a legal perspective and how our Unionist MLAs let this past is beyond me, Coleraine Uni has over 2000 from the Irish Republic in it. I would socialise occasionally in the student scene through the week and in both Belfast and in Coleraine triangle area(Portstewart-Portrush) there seems to be hardly any at all from the British Mainland.
Robinson says we can't push Sinn Fein to much, yet he can put political pressure on the Irish Government to have British Ulster goods labelled as Irish!
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| Culzie | Date: Tuesday, 2011-10-18, 8:57 PM | Message # 8 |
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| Good point with that last line RSAUB. I'm off to watch this thing on BBC2 9 pm about the nuns,priests and doctors who pulled a move with the kids for 50 years and Spain is goin do-wally over it. Nobody know who there da or ma was.I'll be back when its over.
Have just watched it.
Re the students. Things are definitely working against us and we just seem to accept the situations that keep getting created. Witness the turn-out at the Save Ulster rally at the City Hall. Truth be told we are not fighters when it comes to these things. We are not up for the long haul. We like things settled quickly, and if ther'e not, we walk away. Those in authority know that.
I remember saying to a workmate away back in the middle sixties that there is a bid going on here for to take over Ulster and push us back to Scotland. His reply was 'ach well a pint in Stranraer will taste just as good as a pint here'' I'd say thats the attitude of a lot of people here, and if not that, then a pint will still taste the same if we go into a united Ireland,
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| Culzie | Date: Wednesday, 2011-10-19, 8:56 PM | Message # 9 |
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| And in today telegraph it states that 51% of school children are RC.
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| RSAUB | Date: Wednesday, 2011-10-19, 9:15 PM | Message # 10 |
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| Then regardless of what some people say, it is clear as day that they will have the majority, if the majority of school children are Roman Catholics.
And unfortunately a lot of prods don't care, we all know ourselves when it comes to the loyal orders, the bands and the decorations for the marching season, it is a select few people in each lodge or band or area who put in all the hard work. Never mind on the political front.
I think a lot of prods don't care, simply because they have no confidence in their identity, they aren't sure who they are or off their history and just go down the easy route of saying their irish or saying they don't give a damn. Some people will never be won round, that's why targeting our youth is important, even if our youth grow up not to care, if they even have a basic concept of their culture and heritage then it has to be a good thing.
A friend of mine has got placards erected on all the lampposts on the main road through the village of Articlave just outside Coleraine, each telling the story of our Country and people, all very educational and well done plus he’s got a new flute band started out there as well, bringing in the youth from Castlerock and Articlave. So some positivity within this deep depressing state of our community. Another mate a mine has got his band started up in Castleroe, bringing in the local youth, and promoting Ulster Scots heritage of Castleroe and have a few projects lined up in future to educate the local kids.
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| Culzie | Date: Wednesday, 2011-10-19, 10:23 PM | Message # 11 |
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| Well that does give us some hope for the future...excellent and well done to those involved.
You have hit the nail on the head when you mention about identity and the lack of knowledge and indifference regarding it. That is one of the reasons why they are drawn towards an Irish identity. In a way its only natural if they don't know their own identity and have no interest in learning about it. Those of us do, know who and what we are, can only try and educate, and show that we too have our traditions and culture which stand out from Irishness. It is something our founding fathers should have been working on but as the situation arose where the island was administered as one unit by England/Britain and that unit being Ireland, then as long as the Union flag flew over the whole island then people were happy enough to see themselves as Irish. However,that changed with the Covenant and Eire breaking away. It was a whole new ball game and we should have disassociated ourselves from the Irish connections and started anew. Craig did try and do this but were always held back from having their own identity by Westminster. All we can do is carry on and have an alternative to offer to the people.
Just to mention, I see too in the telegraph that the GAA are holding an Ulster Scots night. They are trying to give out the message that in an all-ireland our ethnicty and culture will be recognised.
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| RSAUB | Date: Thursday, 2011-10-20, 0:02 AM | Message # 12 |
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| Aye and a local Ulster Scots group, helped them with it, helping the Irish in their policy of Unionist outreach- Clear as day, change the Prods primary allegiance to Britain to a primary allegiance to Ireland. It's there for all to see.
I seen that it says 51% of all kids in School and only 37% Protestant with 13% percent non-religious/other, obviously the majority of this 13% is Protestant but with so many mixed marriages and ethnic minorities in the Country, who knows either way there is 43000 more Roman Catholics in schools than Protestants if you go by the 51%-37% R.C to Protestant ratio.
Obviously factors like Irish students from across the border taking places in schools on our side of the border, this is a major issue along the border and particularly in Londonderry and Newry, and out the 51% one or two percent are sure to be foreigners going by the birth rate of the foreigners, in my work the Poles are knocking them out like there is no tomorrow, even with all these facts considered there surely is at the very least 15-20 thousand plus more Roman Catholics from Northern Ireland than there is Prods.
Demographics is destiny, Ulster can be British for eternity politically but it’s the people who make the Nation.
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| Culzie | Date: Thursday, 2011-10-20, 1:22 PM | Message # 13 |
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| All true, especially the first sentence, and it appears that Britishness/Ullishness is taking a back seat as the renlentess push for irishness continues. Thats their game-plan and it appears to be taking hold, aided by some within the loyalist community. They don't have to persuade every unionist that they are irish,just a percentage will do and that is the danger. A book which was published in 1993 said that the ratio between Protestant and Catholic is the same now as it was in the nine county Ulster of Carson and Craig's day, and we know that they let three counties go because of the numbers. So 90 years later we have not improved on our population,but they have. In the end thats what it all boils down to.
Some time ago there was a joint report issued by the RC church and the Eire goverment (think it was). It was issued after an inquiry by both bodies of how they would deal if another event happened similar to 1969. What Catholic areas could be helped/defended. A couple of areas being mentioned which they decided they couldn't relistically help were Short Strand and East Antrim/Larne area. They said that the Woodstock/Cregagh area was overwhelmingly Protestant. That has changed Wynchurch (near Cregagh estate) is very much Catholic and it appears it is happening too in the Woodstock. A fella from the ABOD moved out to Ballygown. He lived in the Imperial Drive area and said that there were a lot of RCs moving in. That was a a while ago. Since that and talking to a fella a couple of weeks ago he mentioned that the chapel there had not a big lot going to it but now he says they are queueing up. He put this down to the large number of Poles now here.
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| RSAUB | Date: Friday, 2011-10-21, 10:36 PM | Message # 14 |
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| That's what gets me about loyalists, they will defend Cluan Place and Thistle Court etc, stop the taigs getting their hands on our territory, yet they let them silently move in all around us. It's a true saying that demographics is destiny, and our community haven't a clue about the importance of territory.
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| Culzie | Date: Monday, 2011-11-07, 2:24 PM | Message # 15 |
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| Yes most wars are fought over territory and in past times thats probably how we ended up with the the different countries of Europe and America etc. Though some of the states of America were bought. I could never understand the sense of what happened in Bombay St. To me it was pointless.
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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