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When the decline of Unionism started ?
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| Culzie | Date: Sunday, 2014-02-09, 0:16 AM | Message # 1 |
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| The Conservative Party.
In 1964, it dropped the title Unionist, in favour of the anglicised Conservative. As Devine recounts, it steadily lost the skilled Protestant working class, as Britishness and sectarianism lost their appeal, while its Clydeside industrial class leaders were replaced by anglicised lairds and aristocrats. As the Scottish middle classes abandoned the cities, Labour consolidated its hold on urban Scotland, while retaining the loyalty of the Catholic working class. The SNP then profited from the Conservative decline, while the failure of devolution ambitions in the 1970s set the stage for the experience of Thatcherism and rule from Westminster, as Henry Dundas, the 18th century government overlord, was reincarnated in successive Scottish Office Ministers.
So in 1964 they dropped the word Unionist from their title. Now today they appeal for unity of the UK.
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| Culzie | Date: Thursday, 2014-02-13, 6:18 PM | Message # 2 |
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| http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/debaten....55.html
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| JohnP | Date: Friday, 2014-05-16, 11:12 PM | Message # 3 |
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| The way the Scottish Conservatives abandoned their working-class Protestant base is tragic and we wouldn't be having this farce of a referendum if they had stayed true to their roots. It's not all that different from what the DUP/UUP are doing in Ulster in my opinion.
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| Culzie | Date: Monday, 2014-05-19, 5:50 PM | Message # 4 |
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| Think you've assessed it pretty well JohnP. The comparison between the Tory abandonment of people on the mainland and a similar situation in Ulster is spot on, and is especially true of the DUP. They used the working-class to ride to power and now having used them are making their pitch at the middle-class, middle ground people who see them as maintaining peace and the only party who can do this.
The aul attitude was ''yes we want peace but not at any price'' Now its ''peace whatever the price ''. The DUP play to that gallery.
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| JohnP | Date: Monday, 2014-05-19, 7:52 PM | Message # 5 |
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| Aye, the way the DUP ditched working-class Protestants was a real slap in the face. The whole Paisley-McGuinness 'chuckle brothers' routine was sadly symptomatic of just how divorced they became from their roots.
As for the Scottish Tories, they aren't really an option for working-class Protestants in Scotland since they adopted the Thatcherite agenda. I don't feel like we have any options now really. Sadly, much like our Ulster brethren, the Scottish PUL community (as far as such a thing exists) just doesn't have the culture or resources to articulate itself the way the Republicans do. I believe that we can change this, but it will take a lot of work.
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| Culzie | Date: Monday, 2014-05-19, 8:43 PM | Message # 6 |
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| I think going though two World Wars together help cement the bond between our different peoples in the UK. However, with the passage of time and the rise of the protest/anti-war movements around the western world it sounded the death knell for patriotism and pride. Of course the protest singers of the 1960s like Dylan and others helped change people's thinking too.
Yeah your right about Thatcher she did harm to the relationship between the Tories and the working-class. Though have to say the Labour Party of today bears little resemblance to the party of Manny Shinwell and others of his time. In fact I would say there is little difference between the Labour Party of today and the Tories. They all seem to come from an upper/middle-class background.
Ulster Protestants consider themselves to be a separate nation. This nation they call Ulster
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| JohnP | Date: Monday, 2014-05-19, 10:35 PM | Message # 7 |
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| Very true, all 3 major British parties are essentially Thatcherite parties now. Scottish Labour is notoriously Catholic-dominated, especially in the west of Scotland, so they aren't really an option for PUL Scots either.
I think it is sad that a lot of the most important British institutions are being eroded. Things like the NHS, the welfare state etc. When patriotism declined and the Empire collapsed, these institutions were the focal points of Britishness from the 50's onwards. Now we hardly have them any more, because they have either been eroded or devolved to Edinburgh.
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