Anyway as you say the most capable are ignored and I suppose get pissed-off and retire to the sidelines. But I believe this does show one thing, those who block them, the future of Ulster is not their prime concern. They probably get bogged down in the politics of their branch and lose sight of their main reason for being there.

Don't know much about him but I did read a wee article about Garabaldi the Italian leader. After he had secured Italy as a country his followers wanted him to take up the reins of office and run the country. He declined saying he was just a patriot for his country and wanted only to go back to his island home. He didn't want the trappings of power. Thats what we need a true Ulster Patriot who is not interested in his own profile and selfish ends.

What was that Carson said, something like '' give me men for whom who the lust of office is not desired'' Not correct ,but something like that.

God give us men - a time like this demands great hearts, strong minds, true faith and willing hands-

"men whom the lusts of office do not kill,
men whom the spoils of office do not buy,
men who possess opinions and a will
men who love honour, men who cannot lie."

- Sir Edward speaking in December 1913

The only other loyalist who could have achieved something for our community, was Billy Wright, a man who although tainted by the criminality he was involved with. However he was articulate, he inspired fire in the bellys of our community and stuck fear into the hearts of the enemies of Ulster.

At the moment we’re left with a bunch of ego-mad idiots.

I said earlier about Geordie and the Club which was started and named after him. Then after a comparative short time-....they disappeared. The guy who started it was from the Donegall Rd area as far as I know

Obviously it wouldn’t a happened, but it would a been interesting to see what would have happened, if we did have men who were prepared to go to prison and kill for the loyalist cause representing us instead of a bunch of career politicians. Although obviously, there’s been quite a few ex RUC and UDR men who are elected who served during difficult times.

Yes there are RUC,UDR men serving as politicans and I respect them for serving,but being within the law they would be acceptable to the Prod community. I appreciate what they did for Ulster but I think they were hidebound in that they couldn't carry the fight to the ira wheras the loyalist paramilitaries could and did. Also when I see the lads servering in Afganistan etc I feel the same. They too are hidebound and not allowed to operate as they should. I asked myself sometimes...what is the point of all this tough training you see them going though on TV programmes. All the 'fit as a fiddle' and armed combat stuff when some scum can sit and detonate a bomb as they are walking past,or even leave it sitting on a road or roadside for them to trigger off. I feel sorry for them in a way,but have the highest respect for them in another way. For knowing all which I have said there they still come forward to serve.

Unfortunately militant loyalists will never be social to the loyalist electorate, although Billy Wright in the Upper bann constituency could a been interesting as he had the support of the general Protestant community in that heavily divided part of the Province, and the occasional council seat that have been won over the years by the UDP/PUP, but overall Prods just don’t like voting for controversial candidates.

Re the voting,yes true that was proved with what happened with the UDA's venture into politics and away even before that the UVF's Ken Gibson and the Volunteer Party. Think the reason Davy Ervine did as well as he did was because of his timing and what he was promoting. If Davy had to have paid for the times he was seen and heard on television/radio it would have cost him millions. He was articulate I'll say that but that would have been no use to him if he had not being given a wider audience and the powers that be seen that he got it.

I think Billy Wright too in his own way would have impressed on TV etc but of course that couldn't happen as he wasn't preaching the same message and there would be no 'powers that be' backing.

Yeah Davy I don't think came from a loyalist background,maybe more middle of the road. I never ever seen him out watching the 1st July parade as it passed near his local or anywhere else. But he is a bit of an icon now. I'd say your right about a love for country. He himself said it was because of Bloody Friday and one of the victims having the same name as himself and who had lived a few streets from him (though he didn't know the fella). Incidentally I drink with that fella's brother most Saturday nights

I think they are into the irish stuff too. They seem to be attracted to that John Hewitt bar and it seems to be very left-wing. One time when we were in the town Buffs we went in there (for a laugh) its all diddley-dee music and up on the wall there were all these left-wing heroes, Chuvara,Mao and a few others. John Hewitt? I think I read in the paper that it is owned by that Unemployment Centre down from the Cathedral a bit.

BTW we had only the one drink...then out.lol

I think the big problem with these 5th column within our ranks, is some lack a sense of identity, so cling to their so-called 'Irishness', others are bought and paid for lundys. Then you have some who like to blame everything on the big house Unionists and Ian Paisley, due to their rhetoric they got involved in violence, blah blah blah rather than taking responsibility for their own actions. These sort of people are the type who find a lot a common ground with irish republicans. While the true patriots, well they are sent to the side lines, those loyalist prisoners and men who loved the Country, just get on with every day life, while the drags of our community, drag us down like a big rope around our neck.

Yeah I have heard that about the big house unionists. Its mouthed continously by a certain element within loyalism who seem to be passing it on to the younger people. It is in the context it is used that I find fault. Its used as if it was peculiar to Ulster. The big house has always existed in countries thoughout the world but they use it to hammer unionism here in a way that suggests that it only happens here.

I have thought for a long time that there were those who would go to jail and on coming into contact with republicans would be influenced by them as they told their stories of oul oireland and how oppressed they were.and who would also be influenced by the irish tradition and culture. There are so many on our side who have no sense of identity,of who and what they are. Who were not educated about their own Ulster/Ulster Scots history. If they were they might not feel the need to go chasing down the green brick road.

A sense of Britishness in my eyes, is something that is dieing. We the British are an ethnic group however our nation is being swamped by foreigners, people who are alien to ourselves, the political elite decided decades ago to create a multicultural society, at the expense in their warped and down right evil minds at the expense of our British identity from school age, officially we are not meant to be taught our National Anthem or learn very little if any of our nations history, certainly nothing of the kinship with our fellow Britons throughout the White Commonwealth including South Africa and Zimbabwe etc. If we aren’t taught who we are, then how are we supposed to care?.. But then again, it’s in the blood, that sense of kinship we share, well the scum can try and break it, but it’s the most natural thing in the world and I truly believe that over time people can be made to see for themselves and wake up and get their faces out of their backsides.

Reading a bit about the protest days of the 1960s the days which launched the 'civil rights' in Ulster it said that a new generation of young people were determined not to follow the ways of their mother,father and grandparents and that is what happened. The world as it was was to change bigtime. They too played a part in the world we have now. The hippies, flower power,the Beatles and all that was the big sea-change in our society. Having said that there are some people who trace it back to the Frankfurt School after WW1 and they could be right but it wasn't manifested until the babies of 1945 came out of the universities in the 1960s. 1945 was the year when Labour opened up university entrance to everyone. Maybe it was right to do so,but I believe that led to the protest movements of the sixties. Bernadette Devlin was one product of that policy and Michael Farrel another.

Think when Diamond was waffling on about dividing up a country (the island) he obviously wasn't looking at the mainland.
Pages 699-700
Mr Diamond. Falls. In connection with commercial development I do not know whether or not the Minister of Commerce is prepared to yield to the suggestion of Mrs. McLaughlin, the Member at Westminster for West Belfast, who has urged upon his Department that in connection with the sale of goods the name of this administrative area should be British-Ulster. The Minister should at least convey to the hon. Member for West Belfast that if she is dissatisfied at the end of 40 years because there is so much confusion and that people in Britain and abroad still think that this is part of Ireland, it should convince her and others of their inability even by unnatural or artificial means to divide up a country and to try to destroy its past, its present, its name and its fame.

After all, the linen manufacturers of Northern Ireland, who are quite capable people, have realised the wisdom of trying to sell their products abroad as Irish linen and not as Ulster linen and they realise the value of that. It seems rather late in the day for such a suggestion to come from those who seem to be inspired by stupid political practice and who so dislike even the name and the nationality that exists in the country that they are prepared even to damage our ability to sell our goods abroad by applying to them names which would be completely unintelligible to any of those who hitherto have made substantial purchases in this area.