BELFAST TELEGRAPH
Let Ulster food be labelled as Irish, unionists insist
By Noel McAdam
Tuesday, 6 July 2010

Unionist leaders have pressed the Irish government to scrap a controversial plan to label Northern Ireland food differently from that produced in the Republic.

The proposal by the Irish Food Board, known as Bord Bia, is designed to discourage Southern consumers from buying food produced north of the border by preventing it being labelled as Irish.

The plans were discussed at the North-South Ministerial Council meeting in Farmleigh yesterday attended by the First and Deputy First Minister as well as Taoiseach Brian Cowen. Delegates also discussed economic issues effecting both sides of the border such as a road bridge linking south Down and north Louth.

It emerged at yesterday’s meeting that the Irish Government is to consider scrapping the plans to label imported Northern Ireland food differently to promote Southern produce, following complaints from local politicians.

It is understood that the issue will require further discussions by ministers before a final decision is made but a senior Executive source said: “We think this is effectively a dead issue. The Irish food board has already suspended this idea and it is now likely to be dropped.”

First Minister Peter Robinson and his DUP colleagues, as well as Ulster Unionist Employment Minister Sir Reg Empey, want the entire plan to be axed.

The official communique which followed yesterday’s meeting said: “Ministers recognised the importance of cross-border trade for the food industries and noted that relevant ministers are discussing these issues.”

Plans for a new road bridge linking south Down and north Louth at Narrow Water near Warrenpoint — first revealed in the Belfast Telegraph — are also making progress, the gathering heard.

Sinn Fein’s Caitriona Ruane, who raised the issue with Irish Transport Minister Noel Dempsey, said: “Despite the current difficulties we all face I am hopeful that this important North-South infrastructural project can be progressed. Bridge designs are currently being considered.”

There were no public clashes - unlike the last meeting last December, when Mr Robinson and deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness were frosty over the transfer of policing and justice powers, but the absence of Health Minister Michael McGimpsey, came under fire from Sinn Fein and the SDLP.

They haven't the push,guts and wit to promote their own goods and go out and sell the Ulster label to the world. New brands come out all the time and the businessmen have to go out and sell this new brand to the retailers and public,but those that lead us haven't the strength or stomach for to take up the challenge. I've come to the conclusion that what some people say is correct....they have to cling onto an Irish identity,or a British one,cause they are an incompentent lot to manage on their own. I talk there about our 'leaders'.

I have never heard of the Irish wanting their goods labelled British for the mainland market. Have to admire them for that.

Of course too they will be pushing for the bridge to be built. Then we have Eire owning our electricty and McDowell wanting the 12th a 'national holiday' for the whole island. Yeah the 'blending in process' is continuing along nicely thankyou very much. <_<

We are fighting for our survival.

But everything will be ok We are the People after all.......

We have a demographic timebomb on our hands. And it's time to wake up, people talk of a decreasing R.C. birthrate, well it's levelling out slightly but 5 years ago there was 5 thousand more R.C. children in school than Protestant and thats before the mass-invasion of immigrants and the amount of mixed relationships. In Belfast the mixing process is bad with plenty a taig lovers about but its ten times worse up the country in towns like Coleraine and Ballymena/Antrim etc that suffered very little during the troubles, so you have a whole generation of youngsters growing up who tend to be not interested in politics or their cultural or those who are tend to swing towards their version of Irishness as most mixed relationships the children end up at R.C. schools and then get into their history and GAA etc.

Yeah I forgot about Finna Fail. Well we had our chance with Cameron organizing in Ulster,but the people didn't want to know. People use to say with justification that ''they don't care about us over there''. They can no longer say that now. Cameron said he was for the Union,believed in it and the rest. But he was rejected. Having said that I know what politicans are like and the Tories are a bit dodgy,but at least I think we should have give it a try. But no...it wasn't to be. Now we have a foreign country organizing here. Just on that..could say Germany or France organize politically in the UK?

Tone down the area, stop painting the curbs etc, and before you no it the taigs are sneaking in the backdoor. Cheaper houses in loyalist areas and less demand on the waiting lists etc…

Look at East Belfast loyalists fought well to defend Cluan Place from the Scum in Short Strand, yet the taigs just sneak into the vast-majority of the rest of East Belfast and have been doing so for well over the past decade. Can’t these diehard loyalists not see what’s going on around them?

We have no areas now at all that are totally safe, even in Kircubbin flags were ripped down of the arch. In Culcavy just outside Hillsboroiugh in the vast protestant countryside CIRA/RIRA/ death threats to loyalists has been sprayed on the walls. They are gaining ground in areas were they’d never had a presence ever before. We have no-where that’s totally safe left.

The only positive thing I can note is there seems to be a lot of young Protestant students who are studying now in Belfast who intend to stay here rather than move back across the water from rural areas in Ulster were as previously they’d a moved over the water and there is definitely a decline in the number of derelict houses lying in loyalist areas of the city, but this is only in contrast to a vastly increasing Roman Catholic population and areas that were traditionally mixed are swinging completely to the republicans and areas like Donegal Pass/Road are swamped with foreigners.

I’m led to believe the grand orange lodge of Ireland have spent a lot of money and time empathising the word Ireland in the title. For who’s benefit?

One thing though you have to hand to him....he was the supreme conman. He should have been the leading man in 'The Sting' movie.

The OO moved their headquarters out of Belfast as did the Unionist Party. DUP and Alliance are already based in the east. So we can see the trend

But thats something about the young students,maybe they have more stickabilty than the above mentioned.

One thing I'd like to ask you RSAUB if you don't mind...why the single 'L' in the 'dunney' road.

Ian Paisley has played his hand marvellously, but to who's benefit?

He's a old man now, hasn't long left, surely money can't be that important to him, after all he's been worth an absolute fortune for years with the amount a money he's been receiving from his political career and church etc.

People talk of him being a legacy builder... Who too exactly?.. Treacherous vermin and liberal prods and future students of the Northern Ireland conflict.. That's all well and good, but to the people who have backed him and stood by him for years, he's nothing but a treacherous traitor full of hot air.

Obviously at the time of the Good Friday Agreement it was a shambolic agreement. David Trimble and his UUP moved far to fast and further than they should ever have and Ulster will forever be feeling the affects of their stupidity. But what Paisley has done is very similar to what Eugene Terre Blanche did in South Africa. He promised his volk that they would fight for South Africa, embarrassed white South African resistance throughout the World with parading around like Hitler, same way Ian Paisley embarrassed Ulster loyalism throughout the World with his antics, came across as a sectarian bigot, staunch and true for the red, white and blue but done nothing to win the argument for the loyalist cause in a already very hostile world media. Even his famous anti-Pope one man demonstration went down well with his supporters in Ulster, but how much international damage did it do to Unionism in Europe and investment in our Country especially with the mainly R.C. Nations etc?

He has played a blinder in a political sense, but he's lost the respect of a vast-majority of his community.

I wouldn't be surprised if the UUP and Orange Order both believe that it's only a matter of time before Belfast falls to a Roman Catholic majority. We couldn't even come together to win back South Belfast at the last election, and no matter what we think a Robinson can anybody really believe it's in Unionist interests to have an Alliance politician representing the people of East Belfast?... Total madness..

A lot has changed since 97 when Alban MaGinness became the First papist Lord Mayor of Belfast and the Ulster banner was removed from the Lord Mayors chamber at City Hall. Now it seems like it's a Sinn Fein/IRA lord mayor every other turn. That's what sickens me so much about so many Prods voting for Alliance. It still sticks in my memory the words FARC OFF GERRY KELLY on the boyne bridge. When Alex Maskey got elected Lord Mayor with the support of the Alliance party it was at the time the 3 IRA men had been arrested in Columbia.

I'm reading now about Belfast and how at one time there were only ''7 papists in the town''. That didn't last and they started to come in. The silly Prods again made them welcome and even built their first two chapels for them in Belfast. With that bit of encouragement, more and more poured in and the rest is history. I cannot understand the thinking of Prods who(even today) encourage the same thing. Do they not see what happened in the past? Do they not learn from 1641,1688,1798 ? You would think they would learn from even today by looking at the number of areas which once were Protestant,but have been taken over by RCs. These people are a bane to us,and are a bigger threat to their own people than the RCs are.

This is something which I can't get my head round,that Protestants,WASPS, whites are always seen in a bad light. The only thing I can come up with is that within the above mentioned there are those who kow-tow. Who try to look good. Who are only really interested in vain glory and present themselves as the people who know whats best for us,and who are ashamed of their own people and wish to set themselves apart and gain the worship of the world. By doing this they are easy meat for any malcontent group of people who want to use them for their own ends.

There are other instances of this sort of thing,in Israel,South Africa and I think it all come down to those who not only against are their own people,but support their own people's enemies. Thats what makes the Catholics,Blacks and Arabs appear to be on the side of right and Ulster SA and Israel to be wrong. I see there is a Israeli pressure group supportering the Palastians. Is there a similar group on the Palastinias side supporting the Israelis?

Hope you can see what I'm getting at. Its maybe not the best explantation of why the situation is as it is,but its the only one I can come up with.

The UVF for example, are trying to make the sacrifice and history of the 36th Ulster Division as their own history. In my view alienating a large number of the Protestant community from having pride in their heritage because it's seen as the modern day UVF who haven't exactly a great reputation at present within the greater Protestant community. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be anti-UVF in the slightest but I can see how ordinary Prods view any symbols on display wither they be flags, murals or bands etc as not in recognition of the 36th but as symbols relating to the modern day UVF. People are scared to put out flags relating to 36th in case their viewed as a UVF member.

Ordinary Prods are selling their houses to everybody and anybody, without care what sort a damage it's going to do to the area that they previously lived in. Sort of a sod you jack, as long as i'm alright attitude. You only have to look at evidence of Irish businessmen owning vast-numbers of private rental property in the Greater Shankill district as evidence of this and all the sort of filth who have moved into the Lisburn road/Village area etc. Obviously you can't blame people for wanting the best deal, but is money really going to be that important when our Country is lost and the areas that we love have been changed beyond all recognition?

There is also those Protestants who move into loyalist areas who don't want flags flying outside their homes or murals or curbs painted due to the affect it has on their property prices and also because some view it as nothing but sectarian disgraceful bigotry Blah Blah Blah...... Well the bottom line is this, if people won't buy a house in a area because they see loyalist symbols and emblems, then fantastic. We don't want them in our areas and those Prods who detest loyalism well they should get out as well. May be not a great attitude to have but the bottom line is we have very little territory left and cannot afford to lose anymore ground and have to do everything possible to preserve what we have.

We have traitors teaching our children, promoting Irishness, GAA training in predominately Protestant school, neglection of Ulsters Protestant heritage. Even GCSE and A Level history only touch on the Home Rule crisis etc. There is no teaching of Britishness and Our National Anthem isn't even taught anymore in the vast majority of schools. British kids have the least pride and knowledge of their identity in the whole of Europe according to a report released by the E.U. years ago.

The Serbs, the Rhodesians, The South Africans have all been bastardised in the Worlds media and have all suffered accordingly. 45 Thousand whites have been killed in South Africa since 94, whites discriminated on the job market and in education, many forced into poverty by BEE, and many forced to immigrate to Europe for a chance in life. Over 3500 members of farming familys killed since 94 and the vast majority of the attacks have been happening in the last 5 years. Very few attacks during the world cup, they were told to stop for the world cup while the worlds media was in South Africa. Destruction of anything relating to South Africas european heritage. But what do we hear in our media about this disgraceful situation?.................. Very very little and many of these South Africans are our kith and kin.

The media makes me sick and the scum who pull the medias strings are nothing but vermin.

Sooner or later are community are heading for a pitfall. If your a Prod who doesn't care about your heritage and culture, your nationality and your political status etc, you will be alright, just join in with St Paddys day. But if your a patriot, you may prepare yourself for the fight of your life or a sleeping bag for a refugee camp that we could end up in on the Ayrshire coast if things are allowed to slide away from right underneath us.

Quis Separabit is our Motto- Who Shall Separate Us?..... There's a whole list of answers to that one.. but the question is what will unite our people and make them see sense.

We have very few media mediums to spead our message the internet is one, our only mainstream newspaper the Newsletter doesn't have a big readership and doesn't like covering anything too controversial. The fight can be one but we have to learn lessons from our own history and other nations throughout the Globe.

Even we simple things, why are whole streets in loyalist areas. In Monkstown i Seen dozens a houses in a row without a single flag outside them, yet in Millburn and Monrush in Cookstown nearly every single house in those estates had a flag outside them. What's one estate doing that the other isn't doing etc?

I take your point about the present day UVF making exclusive claim to the mantle of Carson's UVF. I don't think its right to do so,as that mantle belongs to ALL the loyal people of Ulster.

As far as the housing goes its a trend that has been about for quite a while since they started to move into Belfast and indeed Ulster all those years ago. I think it was obvious what was happening. I think nearly everyone over a certain age would be aware,those who could look back and see how things were,and how they have changed. Geordie Chittick giving a talk about old Sandy Row told how the decision to buy ground at the Bog Meadows for Linfield FC to built Windsor Park was taken in a house at Islandbawn St in the Beechmount area of the Falls Rd. He also mentioned about an Orange lodge leaving from near St Lawerence's Hall where the Felons Club is now (I think)

Re the display of flags. Yes its not a big thing to do. It doesn't require much effort,but I'm sure you notice that there are many more houses without flags than with them. Waitin on the Black to come back to the Row a couple of years ago I got talking to a fella I knew. He was telling me he asked a few people ''why no flag up'' they made different excuses..they'd no ladders,they'd no holders,no poles or they couldn't climb a ladder. He ended up going and gittin a few holders etc himself and sticking them up for them. They had no excuse then. That was in the loyal Row too!

When you mentioned SA,Serbs,Rhodesians it ties in a bit about what I was saying about there are those who are always labelled the bad guys no matter what the circumstances, and others who no matter what badness they do are always treated with kid gloves or given a by-ball. I do think (as already mentioned previously) that this is because in the ethnic group, religion or nationality there are those who will 'go against their own' thus lending creditabilty to the enemy and their claims. I think thats what lies at the core of this matter. We seen in the sixties the start of it all when 'That Was The Week That Was' kicked off and David Frost and others ridiculed the Royal Family etc. This was carried on by other script writers and we had 'Till Death Us Do Part' where Alf Garnett by saluting a photo of the Queen etc was show as some sort of nutcase and a bigot to boot. You can get away with almost anything by saying ''its only a joke'. These guys knew very well what they were doing. They were out to change society and take away the things which people once valued highly. The good was to become bad,and the bad was to become good in this new world of theirs.

That could well be true what you say about the coast of Ayshire. I may have mentioned about Paddy Joe McClean before, who told of how the shinners knocked his door looking for votes. He asked them what they were going to do about a million Protestants. There reply was..''oh they'll have to swim'. So we can't say we don't know what to expect,what the agenda is.

As a wee woman said one time to me...'there'd be no need to put flags on lamposts,if everybody would stick one out in their own house. But I have seen some who can manage to decorate big-time for Christmas but still can't bother their butts about the 12th.

I see now that they are demanding an enquiry in the Ballymurphy shootings. I see too that the RC church is pushing for this and giving support. Another £200 million eh. And of course the Protestant churches give overwhelming support to their people. <_< I don't think.

When it comes to flags etc, it all comes down to effort, in Cullybackey they put leaflets through the door telling people your expected to put a flag out and if you can't put one out yourself to contact a member of the local band and they'll come and put the bracket up for you etc, not sure if I agree with almost intimidating people into putting a flag up, but it's one way of making sure they go up outside people's houses. If your pro-active wither it be within the local community, band or lodge you will get results. Unfortunately these days to many people are to quick to lose heart and give up trying because they believe things are lost etc.

I think a lot of the problem with our community is also a lack of identity especially amongst the young, they don't know what they are, they know what they are against but not so sure what it is they are supposed to be for. Education is important and giving ourselves the medium to spread are message, through the arts, music, newspapers/magazines etc.

I agree with what the band lads are doing. Its a good idea. It might be seen as a form of intimidation,but that sort of thing is used by many including goverments. The republicans use it all the time and in a more servere way,and they know no matter the severity of their indimidation that the ordinary nationalist will rally in behind them. They know they have them in the palm of their hand. I think our people on the other hand worry to much about what other people think. How they appear. That is another reason why I think the media behave as they do. They know if they attack loyalist behaviour (unjustly in most cases) that loyalists will backdown and alter their ways. They know republicans won't. The Ardoyne crowd are threatening more trouble next month,and again the blame will be shifted to the OO. And reasonable people that they are they will backdown eventually. Its a game which has been played not only in Ulster and Eire,but in America,Australia and New Zealand and at the end in each case the OO backed down. The mobs can create mayhem and its easier for the authorities to go to the leaders of an organization and appeal to them to stop their parades,and as respectable citizens they usuallly do. That is intimidation use in a roundabout way,but still effective.

Yes identity is a big issue. Maybe not as big as others. Maybe not spoken about as much as other topics but the undercurrent is always there. Of course I think you know how I feel about this in that a name is a must in the first question of identity. I believe that which works for Scottish nationalism would work for loyalists in Ulster. This might seem a contradiction but what I refer to is the fact that the north part of the mainland island has a different name. We haven't got that going for us. Any form of 'Ireland' in a name will forever link us with the Irish Republic as Eric Montgomery said all those years ago. I think THAT in the long term will be our downfall. As I pointed out on another ocassion East and West Germany eventually become one. That was despite them having different goverments,taking part in sporting events as different countries etc they were still all Germans and now are goverened and compete as one country. Edward Heath (of all people) said in a debate in the Commons that on this island there were two different peoples,maybe even two countries. He went on to say that it would be like saying Portgual is part of Spain. But the thing that struck me right away was...not quite the same analogy Edward,because Portgul has a different name. It is not called Western Spain. I think we are now seeing loyalists embarking on a course started by Wolfe Tone in which he said something like ''he wanted to replace the name of Protestant,Catholic and Dissenter with the common name of Irishman''. I suppose Longshanks could claim to be trying to do something similar. Replacing the name of Scotsman,Welshman with the common name of Englishman.

Education is important. PP said something along those lines. Can't remember if it was on this site or another,but he summed it up in three words, and education was one of them. I'll have to ask him about that. What the other two were.

I agree that loyalists care to much about what other people think, while republicans can do what ever they like even cover up child abuse and still maintain and going by the last election even increase their popularity in their own communities.

We are in the fight of our lives for culture survival at the moment, the republicans have even taken to declaring the war dead as their war dead as well. People who joined the army to escape poverty at home and even Edward Carson as a Hurley player, they are playing at everything in an attempt to use history to their own benefit and in contrast what's are side doing for the benefit of our community, we have an Orange historian as are culture minister and in all honesty he doesn't seem to be doing a great deal for the interests of our community but then again there's limits to what he can do.

We should be fighting to get Fernhill house re-opened as its really the only Protestant museum in the Country with the exception of the small loyal order museums. You would think with the tourism that Belfast is getting these days, and the interest in the troubles going by the amount a people who like to go around and look at the murals that there's a market for such a museum, even if our own community were very poor at supporting it.

Thankfully the band scene is going from strength to strength although personally I think it could soon become a victim of it's own success. 50 or 60 parades a year that some bands are doing, out parading 3 times a week in some cases 4 times a week is to much for most people, parades going from march to september then band competitions over the winter etc.. people have to have time for their other interests and families etc.

The loyal orders will struggle, Orange halls in many places are just used for lodge meetings and band practises as many areas now have there own purpose built community halls which local child minding groups tend to use etc. I think the best thing the loyal orders can do is actually encourage their members to ask people to join. I think there's a lot a people out there who would join but have just never been asked. Education is also the key, wither it be through pamplets or media material like cds or dvds its the only way forward. Sash Gordon seems to have died a bit of a death recently, may be not the greatest design ever created but at least it was somebody being pro-active for a change and trying to do some good.

Things aren't tottally bad, there has been some positives recently within our community. Rathcoole area for example has seen 3 new bands in the last 5 or so years. The Republican violence of the dissident republicans if anything will help unite our community. Will be interesting to see what happens in the future, the dissidents aren't stupid they know sectarianism is whats needed to fuel their own campaign of terror, thats why they shot a former udr protestant man in Markethill just to get at the loyalist community and have countless other former soldiers under death threat. The IRA used sectarian violence to pro-claim themselves as the defenders of the Catholic community etc, the dissidents will do the same... another round of troubles coming are direction i believe.

I think the increase in bands is a good thing,however,I have always felt that those in power encourage the bands as they don't pose the same problems as the O.O. does. The most glarin example is that bands mostly parade within the confines of their own area. There are no traditional routes extending back a hundred or two hundred years as there is in the O.O. I think part of the rise in the bands was encouraged for that reason,and it was encouraged by some politicans within the loyalist community working with Westminster.

They are indeed bringing up thins like Carson was a hurley player etc etc,anything at all which will help in the 'blendin in process'. There are those within our own community who actively support this. They do this by pushing 'we are all Irish' agenda. It must be music to the ears of republicans to hear this sort of talk. As I have said before and its a thread on here the 'claim it its yours too' agenda. I see those within our community who take this line as supporting the shinners in their campaign.

Reading that headline in the Tele about labelling Ulster goods as Irish was a real gut wrencher for me. A couple of days later the missus and me were in Lidl's and there were potatoes in the clear plastic bags. On these bags there was the Irish tricolour. So here we have it in a nutshell,the difference in the two peoples. Fair play to them they are proud of who and what they are. We on the other hand appear to be ashamed of who and what we are. Robinson and Empey are not worth a spit.

I was in Fernhill twice,and to be honest I should have been there more often. It was a part of our history which should have been maintained. I don't know what is happening to Craigs house,but the last I recall is that there was some doubt about it too. I think the Somme hospital has moved from there. I think we should be more active in holding those things of our past which had to do with the founding of our country. Maybe our attitude towards these things could be gauged by the disgraceful way the Clydevalley was treated. Once again you have to contrast this with the way republicans handled the Asgard. Fair play to them. It seems to be that anything to do with the foundation of Ulster is to be avoided. Craig and Carson got it wrong it seems. At least thats what those in power would like us to believe but hopefully among the true Ullish people the flame they lit will be kept alive.